Hi, I'm new here. Name's Josh.

I'm half tempted to write a long introductory post, though that's not really my intent. The relevant information, at least, is that I'm currently in the process of building a dedicated practice after a number of false starts over the past few years.

Yesterday, I finished reading Part II of Daniel's book. I'll admit that in starting Part II I was of the opinion that I didn't really need to read it, that I already had the open mind necessary to take the hard-core, practical approach to the dharma. Fortunately, I read it anyway, and in doing so discovered that I had been falling prey to certain dogmas and that they had been obstructing, or at least impeding, real progress. I also found extremely useful the advice to set goals that include a present component rather than just a future goal. Upon finishing Part II I set down the book and set the goal for myself that I would diligently practice daily meditation with the goal of attaining access concentration (which I can't consistently achieve).

(Apparently I'm going to run into the character limit, so I'm splitting this into two posts.)

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There's a lot of concern among hard-core insight practitioners about "getting stuck in Samatha Jhana", and I can certainly understand the reasoning, and know some of the horror stories of people mistaking the formless realms for enlightenment.

On the other hand, there is a fair share of "Kundalini Sickness" stories out there about people overdoing the insight practice (or something related) at the expense of, variously, their health, sanity, etc. Even Nathan here at DhO has darkly hinted at personal experiences with some of the more unpleasant effects of the lower vipassana Jhanas.

Not being advanced enough in my practice to have personally encountered either extreme, I'm very curious about your opinions or experiences on how (if at all) more samatha practice might attenuate some of the kundalini-like effects of vipassana.

Cheers,
Florian

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Hi Everybody,

During walking meditation today, walking fairly briskly along the river (no turning around after a few steps) and noting "left" - "right" while paying attention to the feet touching the ground, I hit a state where I experienced my field of vision swaying, very similar to being slightly drunk, but without the light-headedness or vertigo.

It was as if the "optical stabilizer" which usually corrects for the swaying vision when walking had shut down. Also, the ground seemed awfully unreal all of a sudden, like a sponge or a layer of fog that would solidify just in time in the spot where I would next set my foot, or somehow rise up to meet my foot. I had no trouble walking, however.

So, was that a (slow) vibration of insight practice, or some really dynamic samatha state? I've hit "sitting on air" and "world revolving around my diaphagm" sensations in sitting samatha meditation, but the quality was quite different when walking today - when I stood still, the ground seemed solid enough, and the swaying stopped, but the effect resumed when I started walking again.

It was the second time I hit this state today, the first time was a few days ago. I tried to note the swaying, but couldn't think of anything but "left - right" which didn't seem useful, so I continued to note my steps instead.

Thanks for any advice,

Cheers,
Florian

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After meeting Adrian and discussing the previous "And so?" thread, I think I might just be about to see what you are all staring at so fixedly. Wow!

I didn't participate in the previous thread because I simply didn't see any particular problem: "Powerful people exploiting gullible believers? People disappointed because their holy scriptures were not in fact written down verbatim by the founder of their religion? Astonishment that one's unrealistic models / wishful thinking about enlightened role models crumbles under the pressure of observable facts? Either I don't get it, or you people are awfully naive!" (pleas note the quotes - that's what I was thinking all these months while following the previous thread).

Anyway, after telling Adrian my opinion on the matter, during the subsequent discussion I realized:

1) I'm not a Zennie - so I naturally abstracted the situation to the well-known points about power, gullibility and delusion, and missed how it's about real people actually suffering under the situation,

2) I'm a solitary practitioner, do not have a particular teacher or congregation of real flesh-and-blood people to belong to, so again I just stripped away all the stuff I was unfamiliar with and was left with some obvious general truths about people,

3) The tradition I most closely studies was Theravada, and that there might just be some truth to the image of the "selfish" nature perceived in its principles from a Mahayana point of view - I reacted along the lines of "who cares if the stories are made up, if the institutions are corrupt, if the models are wildly off the mark - all that counts in a teaching is whether it works, and all that I want of a teacher is that they know what they are talking about concerning the teaching, and I don't trust titles and positions anyway".

(cont.)

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Hello everybody,
I think it might be interesting to share some experiences concerning raptures since they can be so out of the normal. To start out I´ll share mine: The only really weird rapture I had so far was that suddenly my body seemed to explode and lose it´s shape. When this wore off I had the strange feeling of being 10 meters tall (with the eyes shut). That was really funny!
So I would love to hear your takes on this,
have a good day,
Martin

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Can someone point me to some precise, technical, contemporary, authentic tonglen or metta instructions? On the internet is great; a real book is fine, too. For tonglen, I have Pema's, Trungpa's, and Kyabgon's, but they don't seem to be fitting me quite right. (Traleg Kyabgon's is the best of them--see The Practice of Lojong.) I haven't dug up any metta instructions for a while, so I'm a bit rusty on judging them.

I'm starting to "existentially ache" just a bit, so I figured I might add an emotional practice to my repertoire. I am perpetually VERY suspicious that any emotional issues are more likely due to relative causes. In fact, over the past five years, 99.999999% of what I thought was "spiritual pain" turned out to be "just" relative/samsara/normal issues which had to be dealt with in relative-land. Even so, I figured it won't hurt to maybe add a little emotional work on the absolute side too. (On the relative side, I apply CBT--see David Burn's "When Panic Attacks", great book, terrible title--to just about everything. I'm treating it as a mastery practice. I've probably put in over thirty hours so far, and it's had more effect on my personal suffering than anything I've ever done. Ken Wilber's 3-2-1 shadow work has been really helpful too.)

***Anyway, just to be clear, I keep very hard edges: when I meditate, I follow the instructions and just meditate. Outside of meditation, I work on my life from lots of different angles.***

Concentration and insight are coming along. I'll post a real update when I've put in maybe five to 30 more hours.

P.S. I know it's a vast and personal territory, and I don't want to open a can of worms, but any thoughts or experiences on dealing with daily emotion as it relates to a steady meditation practice would be interesting and possibly helpful.

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During quick noting practice, the breath slows down to almost nothing, then I lose all contact with the body, and enter a vast space, look around, and then understand local space, conditional body and vastness, and there is a preference (or integrity) to stay with this process. My concern is that I have no idea in real time how long this takes, because it is new during quite long sits, (only three times now). Now that this is happening, (and who know if it will continue either), never the less, I have a concern about going to a sesshin, where there are definite times for period of standing , bowing, sitting, etc. Most of the folks stand up pretty quickly and seem happy to be able to get up. I'd prefer to stay and/or move slower. I can hardly move an inch after knowing this, or I move slowly, knowing how new this is. I need to let it happen irregardless less of what is happening around me, right? It is complex, with awareness all around and within, so trust the process, right? I'm preparing for another three and a half day sesshin- zen-soto style. I know that a sesshin is a good local option for staying with the process (for a parent), but having to move my body when my reality is that there is no body...

Also, usually, before this happens, I surrender my heart, and/or my heart surrenders, in deep racking sobs of openness, I sense it coming, (at home, I feel relaxed and open to this process, although it's not easy). When I talked about these feelings in docusan, I was told that I must stop feeling, but the visceral release seems to bring on the possibility for more awareness. Anyone with similar experience or feedback is welcome.

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