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Location: Places to Practice
Discussion: SN Goenka Centers
Keyword tags:
goenka
retreat
retreat centers
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Tracy. Tracy. |
SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 2:19 PM EDT I want to start a category for info on SN Goenka centers. I know they aren't recommended by Daniel, but I think a lot of serious practice is possible there, especially for beginners. Each center has its own issues and facilities (for example, the Massachusetts center is building a huge, obnoxious pagoda which many community members oppose), but then again they have many things in common. Could we have a general SN Goenka review/discussion page, with sub-pages for the different geographic sites? I don't know how to set this up on the wiki. 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Hokai |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 2:23 PM EDT Hi Tracy. You need to go to the "Places to practice" page (see on the left under WIKI PAGES) and select "Add page" (again, on the left). Next, give the new page a name, and choose the template "Places to practice". Follow through. When you finish the basic input, save the page. Later you may edit and add info and pictures as often as you wish. Do you find this valuable? |
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Hokai |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 2:34 PM EDT I just notices you made a page on CIMC, so you figured it out. Good! Do you find this valuable? |
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Tracy. Tracy. |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 2:38 PM EDT But can I add new pages "under" that page? I'm thinking of a structure like Places to Practice >> SN Goenka Centers >> Massachusetts, Texas, etc. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Hokai |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 3:35 PM EDT There's a list with quite a few details at http://www.dhamma.org/en/bycountry/na/ Not sure how to go about this here. Send a message to Daniel and Vince to get their feedback on this. You could start a thread on Goenka related stuff in each of our sections here, but not in the way to create a sub-wiki. For that purpose you can start a separate wetpaint wiki altogether and have all the structure and options as you like them. Just thinking. Sorry I can't help more. Do you find this valuable? |
 vjhorn |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 9:40 PM EDT Tracy, You can totally have different centers under the SN Goenka Centers menu. All you need to do is once you've created a new page (ex. "Massachusetts" then click the "more tools" link at the top of the page. There are several options under there, but the one you are looking for is "move page". Click that, and then select the SN Goenka Centers page. That will place the Massachusetts page as a sub-page for that sub-page. A sub-sub-page if you will. ;-D Best, -Vince Do you find this valuable? |
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Tracy. Tracy. |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 11:20 PM EDT Awesome. Thanks, Vince! Do you find this valuable? |
 danielmingram |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Mar 30 2008, 11:33 PM EDT Please don't misunderstand me, it is not that I do not recommend Goenka centers, as I know a good number of people who have gotten some real benefit from them, the price is clearly right, they are pretty on the up and up as centers and traditions go, I know numerous people who have crossed the Arising and Passing Away during their courses, and thus, there is much to be said for them. I do have some critiques, however, about a few things. I do know that during the first 3 month retreat at IMS where they used the Mahasi method over body-scanning that they got many more stream enterers and others with deep insights and they basically never looked back. I know that many who have gotten into interesting territory on Goenka retreats have not had teachers there who could tell them what was happening, what to do next, how it might effect their daily life, etc., all of which I consider suboptimal and unfortunate. The tradition is a bit sectarian without necessarily the track record to justify this, though again, as a widespread, dana-based insight movement, the world is clearly a better place for it, and many do get their start there. In short, a mixed bag, but that is not the same as me not recommending them. Best of luck posting your pages, and I do think that posting the pros and cons of various centers and where they is a very good thing, as plenty of people need local options, and more insight practice, even if I personally don't consider it the very most effective, sophisticated and fully developed, is definitely a good idea. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Tracy. Tracy. |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 4 2008, 2:04 PM EDT Yes, I very much agree with your assessment, as you can see from my review. I tried to keep an objective tone, so if anyone else sees a negative bias, they're welcome to correct it. My question in this thread was also trying to get at how tightly or loosely this wiki is meant to conform to interactivebuddha.com. Should it (the wiki as opposed to the discussion forum) be a big, expansive democratic site, or a more streamlined collection of high-quality practical information? If it's the latter, then it seems like the wiki will end up re-creating the structure and content of Daniel Ingram's website, with the added feature of a discussion board. The majority of what's on here IS new, but, um... it's not growing very fast. I think that people with all different levels of attainment should use this site to share their experiences and knowledge, even when that experience does not line up with what they've read on Daniel's site. I wonder if the reason why this isn't happening is that new members are afraid to contribute material that could be considered "wrong" by moderators. Or it could be that the site is still in its initial phase, and those who do post here have Stuff to Do in the Real World. Do you find this valuable? |
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vjhorn |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 4 2008, 4:31 PM EDT My understanding is this site is definitely aimed at being broader than Daniel's site, but with the same spirit of his work, to have meaningful, practical, and moderated discussion about various techniques, attainments, teachers, places to practice, etc. So, it's certainly broader then Daniel's work but not so broad that anything goes. Moderation, to some degree, is always necessary in a space where there is a clear mission and vision. That being said, it's always a fine line between moderating and squashing discussion. I feel, like you it sounds, that having people of all levels of theoretical and practical understanding contribute will make this a very rich and beautiful project. I think it is still in an initial phase, with only 41 members (pretty small for a web community), and from my experience is highly active given that number. When there are a few hundred I suspect there will be much more participation, and it will quickly become an extremely useful resources for all practitioners interested in pragmatic dharma. Or at least, that's the hope. :-D 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 nathan28 |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 4 2008, 5:03 PM EDT Part of this stems from the relatively small size of the site. Today half my office is out so I obviously have some free time, and our clients are broke now so I've had idle time. Experiences that don't line up are good, since they might help the map-makers here. This is also a small site, too, there are only a few people here; my only prohibition against sharing experiences or theories are that a lot of it isn't that helpful or pragmatic. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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danielmingram |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 4 2008, 5:52 PM EDT I very much hope that this site is far beyond my site, broader than my emphases, includes a wide array of practitioners and traditions, but, as Vince stated, I am very much into certain points, such as practical, you-can-do-it, empowering, straightforward, open, real-world dharma. I personally have drawn from many traditions along the way and gotten a lot out of this, though sorting out what is useful and what is fantasy, what is dogma and what is truth has taken work. I think that alternate points of view are good, and some of my most interesting dharma conversations have been with people from Christian Mystical, Western Mystery, and other traditions that superficially look very different from some of what is here but in reality share many common elements. Thus, please feel free to contribute whatever you genuinely feel will help you and the other posters to get these things in the deepest sense. Do you find this valuable? |
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nathan28 |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 5 2008, 11:11 AM EDT " my only prohibition against sharing experiences or theories are that a lot of it isn't that helpful or pragmatic."I got too enthusiastic with the cut and paste function--by that I mean "personal prohibiton against sharing my experiences" Do you find this valuable? |
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Yverc Yverc |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 10 2008, 3:00 AM EDT I might visit a 10 day retreat. However i googled goenka and found some negative reviews about the retreats. This was the most negative review: http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/criticism/goenka.htm Do you think the guy just had bad luck? If i am to visit a retreat i want to be allowed to take a piss if i really need to. Do you find this valuable? |
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Tracy. Tracy. |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 10 2008, 11:26 AM EDT "I might visit a 10 day retreat. However i googled goenka and found some negative reviews about the retreats. This was the most negative review: http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/criticism/goenka.htm"Wow, that guy's pretentious ("If you have not read the Buddha's four discourses on meditation, I have recently rendered a few improvements in their translation."??). But his review does raise a couple real issues, especially the possibility that you will get an Assistant Teacher who is unable to guide you in a skillful way. A really good meditation teacher might have explained to this guy that he should try coupling his relaxation and absorption with continued alert observation, just to see what happens. The teacher should have recognized that someone who is so set in his ways is going to need polite and knowledgeable persuasion to change, rather than just an order to change or leave. The problem is that obedience and enthusiasm seem to be the characteristics most valued in students by the organization, so the most obedient and enthusiastic students are trained to be teachers. A student who displays these qualities might be wise and compassionate, or he might not. So it is largely a matter of luck. Anyway, the thing about the bathrooms is true. There are 4 1-hour periods in each day when you are not allowed to leave the meditation hall. However, if something goes really wrong (bloody nose, bathroom emergency, etc), they're not going to stop you from leaving. That reviewer got to take his bathroom break, but he also got scolded by the course manager. So what? You have to be autonomous and know when you NEED to get up. They want everyone to stay in the hall during these times so that students will learn to break the habit of overreacting to unpleasant sensations. If your problem is going to have real consequences for others (such as urine all over the floor), of course it's better to leave the hall. There is no penalty for getting up during these times. Do you find this valuable? |
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nathan28 |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 10 2008, 12:04 PM EDT The only thing I think you can conclude from Jhananada's sometimes paranoid review is that you probably don't want to visit that particular center or one led by that particular staff--e.g., they kick someone out for practicing "chakra meditation" after he reports following their technique because he is going through "swaying", a common side-effect? That said, I made a point of steering clear from the prunes or lots of cabbage at the last retreat I was at. Do you find this valuable? |
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Tracy. Tracy. |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 10 2008, 1:21 PM EDT After searching Jhanananda's website for a little while, it seems like it would be extremely hard to persuade him to go for insight instead of absorption. So it might be unfair to blame the Goenka teacher for failing. Do you find this valuable? |
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CheleK CheleK |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
Apr 12 2008, 7:35 PM EDT "After searching Jhanananda's website for a little while, it seems like it would be extremely hard to persuade him to go for insight instead of absorption. So it might be unfair to blame the Goenka teacher for failing."Regarding Jhanananda, this guy found our local sitting groups listserve a few years ago and eventually I had to block him. We all deal with our demons. Enough said. I did my first 10-day retreat at the North Fork Center and found it very good and recommend the place to people. They keep you focused and encourage you to work hard. I learned a tremendous amount. They focus on practice. Food was great :-) They have their quirks and if someone already has a strong practice not in that tradition then I would not recommend them. But it never hurts to check them out - their hearts are in the right place. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 mai88 |
RE: SN Goenka Centers
May 29 2008, 11:54 AM EDT Personnally, I startet doing noting practice only and did not try anything else until I had some basic insights. Recently I crossed a point where I find the noting getting in the way of my practice because it´s slowing me down, so I tried something else including the Goenka-method and found it quite suitable for me. So I cannot share the opinions expressed in the posts saying that it is better for real beginners. Do you find this valuable? |
